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The Persecuted Church




Pt.1 A Kingdom now militancy vs. the Biblical model of patiently waiting for the king to bring the kingdom to earth

Among the many views of Eschatology there are some that should not be considered as valid. This is the one that has now become popularized by false teachers in our day. It’s called by a variety of names, known as kingdom now triumphalism.

I’m took this message as an example of Bethel school graduates and what they are teaching from their schooling. Excerpts of this message are used for prime examples of what he thinks and what your youth and assembly will be exposed to listening to those from Bethel.

Paul Dabdoub was youth pastor building youth ministries in New Orleans, Orlando. As a former megachurch youth pastor he is now is a Christian speaker and missional church planter in the Ocean Beach community of San Diego. His teachings go far beyond the hyper Charismatic teaching, but into the popular kingdom now taught at Bethel and the NAR.  He can be hosted to anyone who is open.  (caution, there are several Dabdoub's)

It’s best to know those who are the up and comers of this new revelation so you can discern whether it is true or not. We are in the time of false teachers and prophets increasing, it’s no time to have your guard down.

(my response will be in blue, underlines are also mine)


@Vineyard Church - Jackson, MS  03 August 2014   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhijR0er-M0

After introducing himself and telling the audience he grew up evangelical and from the south …

He begins, “And there are lot of aspects as far as the church is concerned, that has made us less effective in this day or time than we should be.

“Kris Vallotton wrote a book a couple years ago called “Heavy Rain” and in the book he said this: “The cities, with very few exceptions" - this is an actual study - "with very few exceptions the cities in the United States with the highest going church attendance also had the highest social problems."  So, the cities that had the most people going to church also have the highest abortion rates, have the highest poverty rates, addiction - you name it - you can go across the board.  Now there’s a few cities with exceptions but for the most part that is that is the bottom line of it.”

We will see that Vallaton’s point is not the solution, (it will become clearer as we go through his speech).  How can the church be the answer if this is true? What he is proposing the church has a presence but is not active with Christ in these cities.

So there are two options. 1) That many are converts and are not really born again. Which could be the fault of the way churches are run today, not explaining the gospel for one to have a genuine born again experience.

Or 2) Satan opposes the churches work and the church does not know how to spread its message among spiritual opposition.

It is important to know that Vallaton is a pastor at Bethel church under Bill Johnson.

 Or, The third option is Dabdoub’s

     “So we have cities that are full of people in church today but they're not changing the cities that are around them.  There's no transformation.  If there’s transformation of lives here then there should be transformation of lives out there

Now, I'm not pointing this out because I'm not a church critic.  I love the church and God gives us solutions.  And I don't believe that the manifestation that we're seeing are the ones that we're supposed to be seeing.”

Are we called to change cities? Transformation in a believer does not mean those all around them, where they live are transformed. The bible is our example on this. God has given us the solution for people, individual’s; it’s about the gospel and it is accompanied by discipleship. Sound doctrinal teaching to help mature people in their faith. But this solution will not be employed as we further listen to his message.

Instead, his solution is man ruling via the church (saints of course). In Mt.28 I see nothing about bringing cities or countries into the kingdom, but people being taught. This is reshaping the bible to be man centered instead of God centered.

No city was ever converted, not even Jerusalem (who had the most eyewitnesses of what took place). None of the other cities Jesus visited (or the apostles visited) were converted wholly.

Here is the manifestation that he thinks we are seeing compared to what we should be seeing.

“And I'm gonna give you one.  There's probably a lot of pieces that we could we could pull together and say why this is so, but I'm gonna give you one that I think all of us - most of us in the church in the United States but particularly in the South - that we've been taught and we believed that how it's affected us.  One of those has been your End-Times view.  Now if I wanted to go through and I asked everybody “What do you believe in your End-Times view” you are pretty much - we're all gonna say the same thing.  Because when I was up when I was growing up we had the “A Thief in the Night” scary movies and then as we got a little bit older we got cooler and went with Kirk Cameron with Left Behind.  So we all thought that things are going to get terribly worse and then all of us are gonna go hand-in-hand with Kirk Cameron and we're gonna shoot up into the sky.  

 Clearly he does not believe in the rapture, whether its pre or post, (and what of the resurrection which is the same event?). So the church has a wrong view of the end times and that is why we are ineffective? Long before Kirk Cameron and these movies there were those who believed in a rapture and a tribulation from reading the Bible.

He is actually saying things are NOT getting worse? Is this someone we want to listen to, someone that is blind to the societal breakdown, our cultures slow demise into immorality and the rise of religious terrorism and despots all over the world?                                        

“But see when I was growing up it was such a scary time because the Soviet Union was – there was the cold war was still going on and everything.  And what's happened though is that when we were growing up I can remember my parents telling me and oh and people older … when I would talk about having kids one day they would say things like “You're probably never going to have kids, Paul, cause Jesus is gonna return.  Paul, you don't want to raise kids in this evil day and age.” That's what they would tell me.  How many have you heard stuff like that when you were growing up?  Look around the room.  Now if you grew up in the late 60s/70s, you saw what we thought was a great evangelistic move of God because a lot of people were getting saved.”

I never heard of, or know of anyone who ever said not to have kids (maybe the cults). World conditions were sketchy then, and they are even more so today; look at Russia and Iran and North Korea. To deny this is to deny reality.

 It wasn’t that they thought it was a great evangelistic move of God. The 60-70’s did have a great move of God’s Spirit among the youth and we have not seen another like it since in America.

“The difference was happening is that people were actually sharing the gospel during that time but they were sharing it with this message - four spiritual laws - and they said Jesus is about to return and everybody looked around them and they're like “I'm convinced because people are pointing nukes and we're basically practicing for our death and going under our desks every day, so maybe it is.”  And they're worried about overpopulation and everything else, so all these people are praying the prayer and becoming Christians. 

The 4 spiritual laws did not accompany telling people about Jesus’ return as he portrays it, it was a simplification for people to understand the gospel. This is a false argument he is setting up for what he wants people to shift their end times view to. Besides, are we not hearing about nukes today from even more despots than the few in the 70’s? So his argumentation is not attached to the reality we live in.

“But then as it started fading away a lot of those people went back to drugs.  Some of them ended up in church, some of them have got in cults, some of them just walked away.

So what we essentially have done with one teaching of End-Times theology - which I want you to know that the rapture's only been believed for two-hundred years and if you want to go back, it comes from a prophecy that this girl had.”

What he is doing is blaming those who backslid or apostasized because of the world conditions being non threatening.

The idea the rapture was believed for only 200 years is a flat out FALSE, it was believed from the early church; it’s in the scripture. This man is ignorant on the subject. Now even if I consider that he misspoke and probably meant a pre - trib rapture, it would still make this an untrue statement! As writings go back to the 4th century and many after the reformation.

 Because of his first statement on the rapture, I take it he does not believe in any catching away of believers, pre, mid or post. Instead of seeing the problem which has always been present of people returning to their old life because of them not being disciple or grounded in the scripture he passes on a false narrative that he learned somewhere along the way, probably from Bethel school adherents.

“And then they end up unpacking it and Darby jumped on it and he wrote all this stuff in the Schofield Reference Bible - some the older generation will probably know, cuz we knew - that was the most popular Bible during that time because it was a Study.  And people started looking at what was going on around their life and they’re like, “This is it!  This makes perfect sense!  That's why all our circumstances are so bad is because Jesus is about to return!”

Now here's what effect is, because I don't care if you believe in the Rapture any of that stuff, that's not the problem.  The problem is that Jesus Christ didn’t even get the memo of when he's gonna return

First, Bible doctrine is not stuff. Jesus will know when He is to return, and again this is a false argument because he told us of the signs to be aware of taking place in the season of his return.

The fact is, most people who believed in the rapture never even heard of Darby or the woman he refers to (MacDonald?) at that time period, they received this teaching from the Bible.

The problem is that Jesus wouldn’t have written a book about blood moons and all this other stuff and all the hype in the scary stuff that people share on Facebook because he didn’t know - because he didn't want us focused on those kinds of things.

Wrong again. He did write about signs (as did the apostles) and told us when we see these signs we know his return is near. This is taught throughout the gospels and by Paul. And Jesus did write about a blood moon (not plural) and numerous other judgments coming on the world (Lk.21:25; Mk.13; Mt.24; acts 2:20) in the book of Revelation of Jesus Christ (Rev.6). Dabdoub apparently was taught a completely different end times view that he is now trying to convince people of. Read the Bible and fact check him.

“But what has happened in the world right now and the way that the church talks about things because people get all upset and we keep looking at things like “Well, look at the LGBT movement” and we’re like “Man they’re taking over” and all this other stuff you know his if you look at it more stuff is happening within that community in the last ten to fifteen years than the previous, like, hundred years…how did this happen so quickly? “Oh, you know why?  It's because the world's going down it's becoming a darker place and Jesus is about to return.” 

You know what that movement and other arm in other movements that maybe you don't like have that we don’t?  You know what it is?  It’s a future.  Because they believe they're going to be here.  They believe that they're going to establish a Kingdom here. 

And you know what we're doing?  If you're like me when people started talking about environmentalism when I was growing up in the south they thought it was some kinda liberal demonic doctrine:  “Dude, throw your Coke bottles in the ditch cuz we're not gonna be here.  Use aerosol cans, ride your four wheeler, get the biggest truck you can and use all the gas you can because we're gonna suck this planet dry until Jesus returns, because He’s gonna burn it up anyway.”

Again, another false argument, that so many were negligent because of their end time view. There is nothing wrong with being a conservationist. But when one thinks of an environmentalist today it often is attached to man cause global warming and a host of new age ideas as well. I won’t go there, except to say, our environment has always changed in history and I do not know of anyone that has this negligent and antagonistic attitude he portrays. He makes these argumental edifices that can easily be brought down because they have such a small percentage of truth.

“Now, we laugh about it.  But if you think Jesus wants to come and just burn this place up then it explains why the church has no effect out in the world and we don’t invest there.  And also explains some other things.  It explains why the only mechanism that the church has any representationist going out and sandbagging what we have left and we elect political leaders who will preserve our lifestyle and our values.  Our faith came off of God and off of Jesus and the only hope that we have is the Republican Party. If this is intense - if you can get past this and you can get past the offense, we can go somewhere.

 Jesus is not coming to burn anything up, He comes to rule with his perfect government on earth for 1,000 years.  And we will be part of this under Him. This is undeniable from the Scripture unless one spiritualizes the literal scripture away. We are to invest in people, not the world. While I can find agreement on politics not being the answer, his attitude of convincing his audience seems to be going somewhere that is a far worse solution.

But listen I'm not gonna subscribe to anything anybody believes that kills the future for my kids - and I mean that because I already had my future taken away.

Let me interject, here is what Chris Vollatan of Bethel said on his website as it is relevant to his topic

We can learn how to manage the kingdom that's within us.

I will not embrace an end-time worldview that re-empowers a disempowered devil.

I will not tolerate any theology that sabotages the clear command of Jesus to make disciples of all nations and the Lords Prayer that earth would be like heaven.

I will not allow any interpretation of the scriptures that destroys hope for the nations and undermines our command to restore ruined cities.

I refuse to embrace any mindset that celebrates bad news as a sign of the times and a necessary requirement for the return of Jesus

I don’t believe that the last days are a time of judgment, nor do I believe God gave the church the right to call for wrath for sinful cities. There is a day of judgment in which GOD will judge man, not us.”

If this is true why does Jesus warn of the devil roaming as roaring lion seeing who he can devour?

Where did Jesus say we turn the earth into heaven? He refuses to accept that Jesus said the world would get worse (which not only reality proves but the Bible teaches). To insist the last days is NOT a time of judgment goes against Jesus’ own words.

Matt 24:21-22"For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. "And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.” (2 Thess. 1:4-10)

This is also important, Bill Johnson of whom Vollaton is a pastor at the church denies the core teaching of Jesus being God in the flesh. He says it is the anointing that links Jesus to the divine, the miracles Jesus performed came about because He being a man had access to the power of the Holy Spirit.

Paul Daboud continues, “And you know what?  I don't think Jesus is coming in my lifetime.  If He does, it's great.  But I've got business to take care right now. And, truth is - the truth about it is - is that if I actually read in Scripture because we’re counting on this whole thing that happened out of one verse, well, I have to show you the verses that that people keep ignoring.  Let me show you the stuff that has to be ignored, ok?  Again, I said before two hundred years ago people didn’t believe in this thing.

 It’s not one verse… There are numerous verses on this. Two hundred years ago,  one thousand years ago, from the beginning the church always believed Jesus was coming, hoping for it to be in their lifetime; but not anymore. Which is exactly what the Bible predicted in 2 Peter 3 they willfully forget the judgment and say “where is the promise of his coming.”

This is not someone who is looking forward to the kingdom Jesus will bring, but someone who wants to build it without him. It is what the wicked servant says, the lord delays his coming? His care free attitude is revealing his theologic eschatological construct

“There was a belief in the kingdom of God, that when God made us he said ‘I’m gonna make man and woman in my own image and here's what I want them to do:  I want them to multiply, replenish and subdue the earth.’  The earth wasn't in a perfected form.  What else was going on?  There's demons and there was the devil running around on the planet.  God gave them a portion of the world – Eden - that was created and what he's saying is “I want you to go out and I want you to extend the boundaries of the garden.  I want you to come with the authority that I've given you and I want you to take over this thing.  You're going to subdue it.”  It's not all subdued yet, even in that state.“You're going to multiply, replenish and you're gonna create something.  You're going to form something here on earth.”

Here is the kingdom now view being presented. The earth when Adam and Eve were instructed was called good by God. But once they sinned everything changed.  Genesis 3:23-24 “Therefore the LORD God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.” They were prevented back into the training area they were in, they forfeited the mandate. (see Take dominion or cease dominion)

Now, the thing is, is that when Adam and Eve sinned the devil didn’t want their power because the devil already had power.  What he wanted was their authority because authority is greater than power.  That's why, fast-forward, when Adam and Eve sinned they lost their authority and the enemy started wreaking havoc after that.

Authority and power is the same word in the Bible. The Greek word exousia- is used for both. The Devil has authority because he has power. God never told anyone but Adam and Eve to do subdue the earth. It’s not a repeated command to any saint, nor the nation of Israel, nor the church. They didn't just lose authority they lost their place their authority was in. They were now in a sinful state and cannot rule over the creation as intended.

None of this has anything to do with prophecy in the Bible. God does not ever give power or authority indiscriminately, he trains people through suffering and trials to develop faith and places them in ministry.

“Now here's the deal.  When Jesus Christ died on the cross and He resurrected, there's a scripture that talks - it was in the temptation - it's the thing that's going on between Satan and Jesus and Satan says to Him, “Listen if your worship me I will give you what has been handed over to me.”  What he's talking about are the kingdoms at the earth and everything else – is our authority - and Jesus says, “No deal man, that’d be a downgrade from what I've got”, because He knew who He was  

So when Jesus dies on the cross and resurrects, He has all authority in heaven and on earth and He gives it to us.

So exactly who is Jesus toDabdoub? In Luke 4:5 Jesus is shown in a vision all the kingdoms of the world and rejects receiving them. Why?  Satan is offering him a short cut that would eliminate the cross. The kingdoms are not Satan’s to give.

Mt.28 says, He, Jesus is given all authority, being the first man to resurrect to eternal life and glorified with the glory he had with the Father before the world was created (Jn.17).

Nowhere does it say he gave us all authority, He Jesus, is the head and we are under him, as his body we are to be submitted to his authority. God the Father gave it to him ALONE. This is pure fantasy what he is teaching, this is the basis of the 7 mountain mandate, kingdom dominionism and it is no different than the goal of Islam except these Christians will not take up arms.

We have authority restored back to us which also means this:  it means you're not a worm, you're not a sinner, you’re not any of those things.  You’re restored back to complete value and worth.  You are fully a son - not just God looks at your sin and pretends like it's not there - He saying you're fully a son and when you know it you will fully live into it. 

And you have restored power, you have a restored distinction on this planet - which also means that the heavens are God’s and the earth belongs to the sons of men.

Now what does that mean?  It means that were restored back to what we were in the garden and we have to start taking possession again.

So apparently Daboud does not think a believer can sin. The Bible is filled with teachings of the apostles instructing Saints to not sin. To say we are restored back to what man was in the garden means before the fall, when Adam was sinless. If we have no sin, that means no sickness or death. If you believe you have reached this state - you are deceived. We become sons of God but we do not become THE Son of God.

What he is trying to convince people of is their inheritance before Jesus transforms the church. Once one denies there is a transformation, called the resurrection and rapture for one to become sinless they must substitute it by another way.

“So here's some things that scripture actually says, just so that you know, because when we start just talking about the world being this - you know, for me it was – “it's gonna be this weak end-times church that doesn't believe in Jesus almost and they get deceived.  And then Jesus is gonna return and then He’s just gonna bring everybody out and there’s gonna be this battle of Armageddon and God’s gonna kill all His enemies and then He's gonna set up His kingdom.

Well, let me show you this.  Isaiah 9:7 says this: “…of the increase of Jesus’ government and of peace there will be no end.”  We have consistently had an increase of the kingdom day by day, moment by moment, from the time that Jesus walked the planet until now.  There is an increase.  There's not a decrease in His kingdom.  We have a microcosm of the United States that makes us think that we represent the Worldwide Church…and we don’t.

 Kingdom and government are not necessarily the same. Isaiah’s point is that his governing is increased, the church is part of that being governed; the world is not. Besides, it says “the government will be upon His shoulder.”   Yet again he denies how the return of Jesus occurs, so much of the Old Testament addresses this that it seems ludicrous to point it out as all through Isaiah it is spoken.

 Isa. 13:4 “The noise of a multitude in the mountains, Like that of many people! A tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together! The LORD of hosts musters The army for battle.”

Isa. 17:13 The nations will rush like the rushing of many waters; But God will rebuke them and they will flee far away, And be chased like the chaff of the mountains before the wind”

Some other reminders of what is to take place.

Joel 3:2 I will also gather all nations, And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat;

And I will enter into judgment with them there On account of My people, My heritage Israel,”

Zech. 14:2-4 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; v.3 Then the LORD will go forth

And fight against those nations , As He fights in the day of battle. And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives”

Ps 9:4-5 You sat on the throne judging in righteousness.  You have rebuked the nations ,

You have destroyed the wicked; You have blotted out their name forever and ever.

Dabdoub “Psalm 115:16 says “…the heavens belong to the Lord but the earth He has given to the sons of man.”  Psalm 2:8 said, “Ask give me and I will give you the nation's for your inheritance in the uttermost part for the earth for your possession.”  Psalm 72 says, “…He shall have dominion from seas to seas and from the river to the ends of the earth. All kings shall fall down before him…” - this is not after Jesus sets up His kingdom and we've done the lake a fire and all this other stuff.  He’s saying, at the end of the age, that this is what we're supposed to look for to happen - “…all kings fall down before him, all nations shall serve him, all nations shall call him blessed, the whole earth will be filled with his glory.”

 This man is confused in what transpires at the end of the age. Jesus spoke of the end of the age in very specific terms. Matt 24:3 on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Jesus, asking, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" He begins to list all kinds of disasters, wars and pestilences, along with spiritual deception. The Bible does teach deception by false teachers and prophets AT the end of the age, Jesus in Mt.24 said it several times. Matt 24:8"All these are the beginning of sorrows.”

Nowhere do we find a church taking over the nations at the end of the age before his literal return. This is a fantasy. The nations that survive his return will enter the Millennium. For the nations to serve Him he must return (see Mt.25). Psalm 2 is not to us but to Jesus, God’s ONLY Begotten Son. Ps.72 says all kings will fall down before him, which does mean he is physically present.

Acts 17:31"because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead." This raising from the dead is what Ps 2:7-8 is about, "I will declare the decree: the LORD has said to Me, 'You are My Son, today I have begotten You. Ask of Me, and I will give You the nations for Your inheritance, and the ends of the earth for Your possession. Who is the me? The same one mentioned in v.2 His Anointed (one), the Messiah.

Isaiah 2:2 and 3, “It shall come to pass in the last days that the mountain of the Lord's house to be established in the top of the mountains.  It shall be exalted above the hills and all nations shall flow into it. 

Here's the deal.  God has a different story. It's not an end-times, weakchurch.  It’s a glorious church.” 

No, you have a different story. We are a glorious church because we are cleansed and have done His will, we keep His word to have no spot or wrinkle (Eph.5:26-27). Confusing glorious with militancy is wrong.

This kingdom now teaching, a church militant is a lie andDabdoub is twisting the scriptures. Look at the churches in history in the Revelation of Jesus Christ, 2 of 7 are commended. to the Church of Philadelphia

Rev. 3:8 "… for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name.”

How do you have Isa.2-3 fulfilled when Jesus the head of the government is necessary to return, he is ignoring this and other factors. Let’s read the whole scripture in context to understand this error.

Isa 2:2-4 “Now it shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow to it. Many people shall come and say, "Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; he will teach us His ways, and we shall walk in His paths." For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. He shall judge between the nations, and rebuke many people; they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.”

Who is the He? The Messiah. Isaiah 2: speaks of the Lord’s house established on the top of the mountains (in Israel). That is the Temple, it will rest on the highest place in the land as the topography is changed. In v.3, we find that it is the Lord Himself is physically present as king, He will teach the nations. All nations will flow to it (Zech. 14:16-21) in the Millennium as he rules as king. Verse 4 shows the end of war, and peace among the people (Isa. 9:7). This certainly speaks of a future event (just as Jesus said will occur BEFORE He returns -Acts 15:16-17). One must go to the Old Testament to understand this, there are too many scriptures describing it.

Zech. 14:1-4 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, … And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, from east to west, making a very large valley; half of the mountain shall move toward the north and half of it toward the south.” 

This is what happens when he returns V. 8-9 And in that day…And the LORD shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be--" The LORD is one," and His name one.

When his house is set up in Jerusalem Zech. 14:17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain.

This becomes a very dangerous teaching when this is distorted to mean the church before Christ returns brings this peace and harmony.



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