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The Persecuted Church

 

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Who Is Your Mediator ?

One of the easiest and most pleasant ways to witness to a Jehovah's Witness is to ask logical questions. By asking questions rather than just "teaching" them, they become much more open to respond, and a real conversation will ensue, instead of a battle.

I have used this method (particularly with the topic of the Mediator) numerous times but have gotten no real answer from them. They have left puzzled and confused, which is fitting since it is their own doctrine that we are discussing and they are usually unaware of this teaching. Things that are needed are Xerox copies of their own publications (if possible), and about 10 minutes of your time and you will have a open door to the J.W..

Here is a simulated dialogue between a Christian (C) and a Jehovah's Witness (JW):

(C) Who do you believe is your Mediator ?

(JW) Jesus is our Mediator.

(C) Can you please read I Tim. 2:5 for me ? (JW) Sure. (They read it) Do you agree with that ?

(JW) Yes, we do.

(C) From what I understand, Jesus is the Mediator of the 144,000 (hand them their own publication), and that these 144,000 are the only ones who are partakers of the New Covenant. They, in turn, mediate for the Earthly Class of people. Isn’t that true?

{At this time the JW has only two choices to deny this if he knows their doctrine or he is not aware of this teaching yet . By giving him his own literature he will quickly be acquainted with their teaching. Lets assume they know this but did not think you did.}

(JW) Well yes that is true.

(C) Are you part of the 144,000 the heavenly class ?

(JW) No, I'm not part of the 144,000, and you are right in saying that they mediate for us.

(C) So then you agree that Jesus is not your Mediator as you first said. How can you agree with I Tim. 2:5 where it says that Jesus is the only Mediator?

(JW) We teach that Jesus is the mediator for those who go to heaven. The 144,000 are kings and priests (he will turn to Rev. 5 : 10) so they are able to mediate for us on Earth.

(C) (It is here that they are trapped in their own belief system). From what I understand, Jehovah's Witnesses believe that after one dies, they cease to exist so how can you believe that they are mediating for you after they die. (J.W.’s believe that we go into non existence when we die this is the same for everyone even Jesus, who then was later recreated)

(JW) Well no, it's the living 144,000 that are able to mediate for us.

(C) Well, from what I understand, there are only 8,000 of these people alive today and you teach that the 144,000 mediate together, not a fraction of those who are still alive that are on earth.

(JW) I'm not here to argue with you.

(C) I'm not arguing. I'm asking legitimate honest questions that even your own literature acknowledges for us to do. This is a logical question I hope you can answer. You said that they are kings and priests. Let me ask you another question. Did this event already occur or is it still to come in the future ?

(JW) This is a future event.

(C) Let's review what you have already said. Jesus is not your Mediator. The 144,000 are your mediators and, as you can see, this event has not yet happened. So right now, you have no Mediator.

(JW ) I'm in the New Covenant and I don't need Jesus as a Mediator.

(C) Let's look at your literature again (read the Watchtower quotes of Jesus being the exclusive mediator of the 144,000 who are spiritual Israel). It says here that the Earthly Class is not in the New Covenant, but only the 144,000 are. Could you please read Heb. 8:6 , 9:15 for me, to help me understand this? (These verses show that without Jesus as your Mediator, you're not in the New Covenant !

(JW) I've never seen this before. I'll have to ask my elders about this I’m sure they have an explanation.

(C)Can I ask how Jesus can be mediating for anyone since you believe he's Michael the Archangel a spirit when the bible in 1 Tim.2:15 says he's a man, a human?

(JW)Well he was a man but he was raised a spirit creature because he gave his body for sin.

(C) But that's not what it says, it states he's still a man as the mediator.

(JW) Well I'll have to look into that further

(C)I have one last question before you go. Can you have a relationship with Jehovah God without the mediatorship of Jesus that puts you in the New Covenant as 1 Tim.2:5 states?

(JW) I'll have to get back to you on all this.

(C) Great, Let's make a meeting time for next week right now.

2nd Encounter

C) Hi , I’d like to pick up where our conversation left off the last time. Remember I asked you the last time how many mediators there are? In 1 Tim 2:5 the word for one mediator. Is this not the same word "one"used for one God? So how can the 144,000 mediate if there is strictly only one mediator. And if they are mediating that means there are at least two mediators, then this can mean there is more than one God correct.

JW) I'm not sure I understand your question?  There is only one God. God mediates through Christ, just as Christ does through the 144,000. So there is only one mediator.

C) Then it is like this quote from your WT publication  "Members of the great crowd are not participants in the new covenant. However, they associate with the Israel of God and live with them in their "land." While not participants in the new covenant, they are beneficiaries of it."               ( WT-Feb. 1, 1998 p.24)

JW) Exactly, we come through them and they through Christ.

C) Well the way I count that means more than one since Christ is not the mediator for all, you acknowledge some can go through Christ. How do you distinguish who are the privileged to do so and the others are not.

JW) Because some will live on paradise earth and only the 144,000 go to heaven because Christ is their mediator. Those who are part of the 1444,000 just know who they are.

C) "Let me read some of your materials to have you clarify this," Being made kings and priests by reason of the new covenant that he (Jesus) mediated, they will share in administering the blessings of Jesus sacrifice(forgiveness of sins for instance) and of his kingdom rule to all the nations of the earth. Christ's mediatorship, having accomplished its purpose by bringing the Israel of God into this position, thus results in benefits and blessings to all mankind."(insight vol.2 p.363)

…Jesus mediatorship operates solely toward those in the new covenant,"(Insight on the Scriptures p.362)

The other sheep referred to by Jesus in Jn.10 "…are persons who are not in the covenant….( Survival p.73,80)

So how can you who are not part of the 144,000 be given the H.Spirit and forgiven if not abiding in the covenant.

JW) We receive it through others who received it from Christ.

C) So then Christ is not your mediator but someone else’s, yet since their is only one in the bible ,you don’t have him. Could you please read Heb. 8:6 , 9:15 again. (he reads this) Don’t these verses show that without Jesus as your Mediator, you're not in the New Covenant ? If Christ died for the sins of the world then he has to be your mediator, at least according to the scripture.

JW) Iv’e already shown you our teaching, he is not my mediator but we receive the benefits through the 144,000 ambassadors(mediators). So we are not in the new covenant yet.

C) I know that's what they tell you, but 144,000 are not mediators. Isn't Christ suppose to be the one and only that the mediatorship comes through?  I asked you the last time, this event has not occurred yet has it?

JW) I don’t have an answer for that right now.And your right this did not occur yet, its still in the future...

C) I asked this the last time and you didn’t have an answer for it then either. They are unable to do anything since the do not exist now. So how can they be mediating now if they are not together as a whole 144,000 alive here on earth and the event is still to occur in the future? Doesn’t the bible say they are all sealed together at one time in the tribulation, which means that they can’t be sealed today? So even if they could mediate they are non existent until the resurrection. And what happens when all 1444,000 are dead? Doesn’t this mean you will have no more mediators from Christ to you ?

JW) I’m getting confused by all this, your questions are too many and I don’t have the answers for all of them.

(C) Just  two more questions if you would be so kind to bear with me. The 144,000 the bible says stand with the lamb on MT.Zion as first fruits which means they are from a new group than the church . But the scripture has 144,000 being sealed on earth (Rev.7:1-8). doesn't this mean each member of the 144,000 must be alive on earth, in order to be sealed. Do you believe the number "144,000" refers to 144,000 literal people?

(JW) we see the 144,000 counted from history. From the time of the apostles they have been 144,000 counted until today.

C) doesn't the bible say the sealing (gathering) of the 144,000 is during the great tribulation. Wouldn't that make "The tribulation of Mt 24 still ahead of us, a future event?

(JW) The remnant, the remaining heavenly class which makes up the 144,000 are those still on earth according to Revelation 7.

C) Please help me understand,  how can the major portion of the 144,000 be in heaven in chapter 7, when the passage claims that every member of the 144,000 is being sealed on earth at the same time?

(JW) You can't understand all of this unless your with Gods organization

C) Only one more question, what do you do with Rev.14:4 which says they together follow the lamb not Jehovah, how can they follow if 136,000 are now non existent ?

JW) They followed him when they were alive. And they are not non existent, the members of the 144,000 who died before 1918, were resurrected in that year. Since 1918, every anointed person is resurrected immediately upon death.

C) Can you point out which passage of the 144,000 being a resurrected gives a date to the year 1918 ? And do you mean to tell me that when someone dies they could be missing before they are buried?

JW) I don't think I can find that date now. And they are resurrected spiritually not physically.

C) But they can't be Jehovah Witnesses since you claim your organization does not follow Jesus only Jehovah.

JW) Thats right we follow Jehovah! And I think our conversation needs to end now.

C) I had hoped you could answer my questions from the bible. Well I guess you have a lot to think about with the Bible showing that only those in the new covenant are forgiven, and have a mediator , please come back any time when you have the answers.

(this is based on real conversations with Jehovah Witnesses.I have never had one answer any of these questions sufficiently  and they have left either frustrated or mad but then this is their teaching not the Bibles,

WHO IS YOUR MEDIATOR ? The Watchtower says the 144,000.           The Bible says Jesus.

 

   Who are They?

     Tacking in the wind

     No Christmas for A J.W 

Is the Light getting Brighter? Is Jesus Michael the Archangel   Lying to the Public 
Watchtower and Believers   Shepherd of the Sheep    Who is Your mediator
Forbidding Blood Transfusions   Blood Transfusions   The Jesus of the Watchtower
Mighty or Almighty God ?      If he is NOT God then ?  Jehovah's Name is ? 
What did the apostles preach   Singing the Song of the Lamb    Secret Coming of Jesus
Communication with a dead Pastor   Angelic Direction for the Society    A Lie for a Lie
  Jehovah Witness Children    Denying the Creation Account    The 144,000
Flesh and Blood cannot Inherit the Kingdom      What does and does not happen to you when you join
The Watchtower and Pagan Pyramids     The many Gods of Jehovah Witnesses
Watchtower proclaims themselves as false prophets Answering the knock at your door
Whose testimony do you have? Resurrection or recreation? The Way of Salvation
And the Word was what? Scholars on Jn.1:1  

 

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