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The Persecuted Church

 

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Joyce Meyer  

-Are you paying attention-

 Since I have been asked about Joyce Meyer so often I find it necessary to comment on her teaching. She is known as being one of the top women speakers, one who tells it like it is with a frank but challenging way of putting things. She is an enigma, in that she has some very good practical information from experience and the Scripture. So there are good portions in her teaching and there are also some bad interpretations and experiences from her teachings; that are to be avoided. Meyer may not be completely engulfed in word faith teaching but she is yoked with many word faith teachers (in fellowship with Creflo Dollar, and Kenneth Copeland. Copeland’s magazine, The Believer’s Voice of Victory, has carried some of her articles) and her writings and teachings have certainly been influenced by their word faith prosperity theology.  In her broadcast the first week of January 2005 she interviewed a man giving testimony to Kenneth Hagin who is known for spreading the word/faith heresy to his disciples.

Joyce has been honest about her struggle with health and about her fight with breast cancer and getting surgery. Over the years since her popularity has grown her appearance has also changed through cosmetic surgery.  She disdains any criticism of her wearing jewelry, having a large and expensive wardrobe and even her teaching men. These are off limits. The rationale is that money spent on her appearance, changing her hair color, etc. is acceptable for her being in the public and should not to be confused with vanity. Neither does she does not see any problem of her exercising authority over men (see1 Timothy 2:12). 

At 60 years of age she has become a very popular speaker. She certainly is one of the well-known and best-paid TV preachers (especially for women). Her ministry revenues have steadily increased from 1998 where they took in 40 million, to 1999 they brought in 55 million, to 2000 70 million, to 2001 near 80 million, to 2002 near 90 million. Today her Life in the Word organization estimates to take in $95 million this year. The ministry says it spends about 10 percent - $880,000 a month - on charitable works around the globe.

Her ministry is now a multimillion-dollar organization with 500 employees with offices in Europe and South Africa. "The ministry's headquarters, built a year and a half ago by Wichita-based R. Messner Construction Co. Inc. for $19 million." Meyer's ministry reaches out to the world Charisma article a number of years ago pointed out she is on 600 radio and television stations -selling nearly three million tapes and close to a million books last year (Charisma magazine)  Four million cassettes are produced annually and at the cost of $6 each, according to a Joyce Meyer Ministries pamphlet, which accounts for $24 million in revenues, her Web site bring an average $8 million a month to her ministry. (Reference-Joyce Meyer's message: Give to me and God gives to you By Carolyn Tuft and Bill Smith St. Louis Post-Dispatch)

Meyer's house, the largest of the five, is a 10,000-square-foot Cape Cod style estate home with a guest house and a garage that can be independently heated and cooled and can hold up to eight cars. The three-acre property has a large fountain, a gazebo, a private putting green, a pool and a poolhouse where the ministry recently added a $10,000 bathroom."

(Article on Joyce Meyer, 11/15/2003, St. Louis Post Dispatch

I don't want to spend my whole life talking about the promised land without ever getting there. I want to live in it ”(Joyce Meyer, “What Does Your Future Hold” May 21, 2004). According to her own message and theology this means accumulating wealth and living the good life now. So we can see Meyer is living her word/faith prosperity teaching though she may not blatantly teach it. If one listens carefully they will hear sprinkles and chunks of it, and sometimes get a whole meal of it.

At times she can come off with a sense of humor and is witty and clever, but other times haughty and even snippy with sharing her life experiences. One needs their discernment turned on when listening to her teaching, lest they take in the unhealthy concepts she is delivering. And these are certainly incorporated in her teaching, if one listens carefully.

Joyce seems to turn Scripture away from its plain meaning to endorse women teaching “The blame game started in the Garden.  Adam blamed God, 'The woman you gave me.'  You know what?  Adam was the head of the house, if he was standing there why didn't he say something?  Why didn't he say something?  Why didn't he do something?  I'm not taking that rap anymore!  You know the Bible doesn't even necessarily say that God told Eve not to eat of that tree.  He told Adam.  Maybe Adam didn't tell Eve, I don't know.” (Joyce Meyer, Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes, tape- the Attitudes, tape # 4)

If Eve was not told to not eat of “that tree” how did she tell the serpent:We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; “but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.'“(Gen 3:2-3). This is like the ABC's in teaching what took place in Genesis.

The Bible explains that Eve knew she shouldn't eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Paul writes, “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.  For Adam was first formed, then Eve.  And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression” (1 Timothy 2:11-14).

It is for this reason women are to be under the authority of man, as the Bible teaches in 1 Cor. 11:3: “But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.”

                                                   Achieving Sinlessness
I’m going to tell you something folks, I didn’t stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head I wasn’t a sinner anymore. And the religious world thinks that’s heresy and they want to hang you for it. But the Bible says that I’m righteous and I can’t be righteous and be a sinner at the same time.

Now whether you like it or not, whether you want to admit it or not, whether you want to operate on it or not, you are made the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ.  Most people who go to denominational churches never ever hear that!  They never hear it!  Never!  All I was ever taught to say was, ‘I’m a poor, miserable sinner.’ I am not poor, I am not miserable and I am not a sinner. That is a lie from the pit of hell. That is what I was and if I still am then Jesus died in vain. Amen?”  (Joyce Meyer, “What Happened from the Cross to The Throne?” audio)  

One does not have to be part of the religious world to believe this, the Bible actually says this and it certainly is not from the pit of hell. The Bibles definition of sin is anything falling short of perfection.  One of the words for sin is Harmatia -- missing the mark or target and hitting another is the most common explanation. To keep the law perfect means to have a bullseye every time. No one can do this.  Everything that does not come from faith is sin (Rom. 14:23).  So one would have to be perfected in their faith not to sin. James tells us, knowing good and not doing it is sin (James 4:17).  Not doing what should be done is sin. To sin means one is still a sinner.  It is absurd to say You stopped sinning because you stopped calling yourself a sinner. (article on are we sinless?)

Of course one can be righteous and be a sinner at the same time, because it is not our righteousness but Christ's that we are given.

Consider that Joyce stated: I didn’t stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head I wasn’t a sinner anymore.

John makes it clear (I Jn. 1:8-10) “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned,  we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.”

John refutes the error that we have no sin nature, by using the word sin in the singular. It is not just the committal of sin but the principle of sin, he is referring to sin of every description. If we are sinless then there is no need to ever confess sins, that is something to seriously think of as a worldview. To those who profess to have become perfectly sanctified, and to live without any sin, John says  If we say that we have no sin, and continue to sin we live in self deception,and the truth is not in us.” This kind of attitude will affect all that we do. Meyer's claim of not being  a sinner any longer is very concerning because she is promoting this as a revelation from Scripture, when it is not. Her doctrine of justification is skewed.

We are called righteous and even saints as Peter points out 1 Peter 4:18: “Now If the righteous one is scarcely saved, where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?” Even though we are covered with Christ’s righteousness our sin remains, we have a sin nature (an old nature) that has not been removed. No saint ever claimed this pure spiritual condition. Not Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; Not Job, Moses, David; nor anyone in the New Testament Peter, John, or Paul. None were absolutely perfect, they were all guilty of acts of sin?   They never affirmed themselves as not being a sinner. The Bible does not teach that ALL Christians are perfect or no longer sinners. Paul said he was the chief of sinners and continued to do what he did not want to at times. “But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me” (Rom. 7:17). Sin is always present with us until we leave this earth.

If what Meyer says is true then this Scripture is meaningless. I Jn. 5:16: “If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death.” To sin makes one a sinner. “Let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us (Heb. 12:1).

James explains in  Jms.4:17: “Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.” James explains “But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren” (Jm.1:14-16).

Word Faith Teaching

Meyer, in her book, writes, “Words are containers for power” (The Name, The Word, The Blood, p. 37). This is typical Copeland/ Hagin faith talk. She has promoted this on her TV broadcast: “Prov.18:21 this could be a life  hanging scripture “death and life are in the power of the tongue. And they who indulge in it shall eat the fruit of it for death or life.” The ad following for her audio series “Is your mouth saved.” The advertise says we all have the ability to speak life or death to not only other people but to ourselves as well. “Will help you to take inventory of what you’ve been saying and begin speaking faith filled words that will bring to pass God's good plan for your life” (May 14, 2000 LeSea broadcasting) . 

But you cannot throw out positive confession, and you cannot throw out all the faith teachers, and you cannot throw out positive thinking.  And you cannot get rid of those kinds of things because they're in the Bible from one end of it to the other (Joyce Meyer, PFO Quarterly Journal, April-June 2002, p. 6.  Witchcraft and Related Spirits, pt. 1, sides 1 and 2).

Are they? If so then why do all the word faith teachers have one thing in common- heresy.

Meyer was at the Mega Fest 2004 with: Creflo Dollar, Paula White, Juanita Bynum, Bishop Eddie Long, and Bishop T. D. Jakes. All are promoters of word faith heresies. On June 15-17, 2004, Joyce appeared with: Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Copeland Oral and Richard. and she  She was also on the TBN network Praise-A-Thon (Nov. 3, 2003), where the majority of Word Faith Movement heretical teachers reside.  

By the way we need to know that Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar and Eddie Long believe we are little gods. Bynum thinks she is a prophetess who can pass on the anointing to anything at anytime she chooses. T. D. Jakes does not believe in the Trinity and teaches a mix of pop psychology with Biblical principles. Paula White is a prosperity teacher who has a mixture of various aberrant trendy doctrines. The word faith associations do rub off on Meyer's teachings, this is why she is comfortable to be speaking with these people.

In fact Meyer up holds to the worst heretical teaching in word faith “You know, I was listening to a set of tapes by one man and he explained it like this, and I think this kind of gets the point across, he said, ‘Why do people have such a fit about God calling His creation, His man—not His whole creation, but His man—little gods? If He’s God, what’s He going to call them but the god-kind?’ I mean, if you as a human being have a baby, you call it a human kind. If cattle has another cattle, they call it cattle-kind. So, I mean, what’s God supposed to call us? Doesn’t the Bible say we’re created in his image? Now, you understand I am not saying you are God with a capital G.” (Joyce Meyer, Authority and Opposition, audio tape number 1236.)

Well of course not, that would be too obvious an error when The God of the Bible teaches that all other gods are false gods. One can only guess which word faith teacher Meyer was listening to, Copeland, Hagin, Savelle, Dollar, Duplantis etc.. They all have the same unbiblical tecahing.

“Romans 4:17 says God gives life to the dead and speaks of the nonexistent things as if they already existed. He created the world with faith-filled words (see Genesis 1). We are created in His image, and we can also call things that are not as though they are. We can speak positive thoughts about ourselves into the atmosphere and thereby ‘prophesy our future. (Joyce Meyer, “Your Mouth is a Weapon,” Life in the Word March 1997, p. 4.) If this is true why take an offering?

You got a storage bin, a storage locker in heaven that has a lot of stuff in it that needs to be claimed.”(Joyce Meyer, “What Does Your Future Hold” May 21, 2004)

Where is this teaching in the Bible? Nowhere, but it is from the mouths of those word faith teachers she associates with.Your stuff is in heaven and needs to be transported to earth after you positively confess what you need.

In a typical wrong word faith interpretation she states "Our words are containers of power.  The power of life and death is in the tongue." (Joyce Meyer, "What Does Your Future Hold?" TBN, May 24, 2004)

Mimicking Kenneth Hagin, she states- “believe that words are containers for power and they either carry negative or positive power.  They carry creative or destructive power.  So, if I'm speaking right things I'm going to have right results.  And if I'm speaking wrong things I'm going to have wrong results.  And we do pay for our words.  If, if I can say it like this, we eat our own words. (Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape # 2 of 4 the "Mouth")

"We can kill the plan of God for our lives with a negative confession(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes, tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")

Proverbs 18:21 teaches us that the power of life and death are in the tongue. That means we can speak life to dead circumstances, but it is a choice and decision not made with feelings as its basis. We can also speak death to sick circumstances. In other words, we can have something negative (sick) happen, and we can cause very serious problems by speaking negatively about it. It may go from sick to dead, especially if we repeatedly talk hopeless, negative, and downcast. (ibid)

Even though she had had the problem for twelve years, and the crowds looked impossible to penetrate, she pressed through and received her miracle. Her faith was released through her words.  What a powerful example for you and me (Joyce Meyer, Enjoying Everday Life Magazine, “Crossing Over to the Other Side,” May 2004).

This is a typical word faith teaching- words have to be said out loud to take place, the Bible does not say this-   For she said within herself, "If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well" (Matt. 9:21). Jesus says her faith made her well, NOT her words.

She clarifies her position by explaining that “words are containers for power they carry creative or destructive power positive or negative power so we need to be speaking  right things over our lives and about our futures if we expect to have good things happen because what you say then is what you  probably end up having tomorrow (broadcasted on the Bible Answerman  Jan.2003)  

She has no qualms about her word faith teaching that is rooted in mind sciences/ new thought. She defends it -But you cannot throw out positive confession, and you cannot throw out all the faith teachers, and you cannot throw out positive thinking.  And you cannot get rid of those kinds of things because they're in the Bible from one end of it to the other” (source-Joyce Meyer, PFO Quarterly Journal, April-June 2002, p. 6.  Witchcraft and Related Spirits, pt. 1, sides 1 and 2).

The faith movement is right.  You can't throw the faith movement out the window” (source- Joyce Meyer, PFO Quarterly Journal, April-June 2002, p. 14.  Witchcraft and Related Spirits, pt. 1, sides 1 and 2).

Speaking words to control reality is a a consistent teaching in the word faith world which is not any different than the metaphysics of the mind sciences. “Words are containers that carry either creative or destructive power. Your mouth is a weapon—either for Satan or against him. We can help the devil bring destruction into our lives, or we can learn how to agree with God and experience His best for us.” (Joyce Meyer, “Your Mouth is a Weapon,” Life in the Word March 1997, p. 2.) 

Despite the concept of speaking words to be in control, there have been many who have overcome some very unhealthy lives from where they came from even with negative words spoken about them. Our mouth is not in control, God is.

A Word faith Prosperity Message

Her appeal to money to be given to her ministry is from the prosperity teaching that originated with Oral Roberts. “Sowing and reaping is a spiritual law...Sow generously and you will reap generously (Joyce Meyer, “What Does Your Future Hold” May 21, 2004).

We need to claim as much of that inheritance as we possibly can...One of the things you can do right now is speak positive things about your future right now.” (ibid.)

“You got a storage bin, a storage locker in heaven that has a lot of stuff in it that needs to be claimed.” (Joyce Meyer, What Does Your Future Hold May 21, 2004). In word faith teaching this means speak it with faith and you shall have it. This is nonsense thsat God has things stored and we need to claim it to receive it. The New Covenant is by grace not by our own power of speaking.

Joyce says if you bring the tithe I will rebuke the devourer... Don’t be need minded, be seed minded” Mimicking Mike Murdock whose teaching is made of cliché' she repeats        “Remember whatever you are willing to do for God, God is willing to do for you” (week of Sept.20-26, 2005 LeSea broadcasting).

it becomes clear that Meyer borrows from numerous prosperity teachers and uses the same type phrase to manipulate her audience into giving.

She says “I've got to keep the anointing on my life. I can't keep it on my life unless I'm a giver” (May 14, 2000) (insinuating money keeps the Holy Spirits power). Clearly this is a word faith view. Jesus said he would never leave nor forsake us, poor or rich, giving or not.  

The Lord recently showed me that we can bless or curse the financial seed we sow. We can speak positively about our financial future, or we can say things like, ‘I can’t afford it’ . . . ‘Every time I turn around something happens to take my money’. . . . We should water our giving with the water of His word and expect an abundant harvest. Sow your seed and speak prosperity scriptures over your finances.  (Joyce Meyer, “Your Mouth is a Weapon,” Life in the Word March 1997, p. 4.)

While Meyer may have practical teaching she also incorporates extreme Charismatic views. Speaking about trials she apologizes and states “that’s not a negative confession, I’m not cursing your life   (Life in the Word Mar.6 2003 Lesea Broadcasting)” This shows her word faith influence of not speaking negatively.

Charismatic Spiritual Warfare

She also has some interesting views on warfare as she has adopted the new trends that are not found in Scripture. “Several years ago I found myself completely worn out from trying to fight the devil. I learned many 'methods' of spiritual warfare; however, they did not seem to be working ... I had fallen into the trap that many Christians fall into. I had the right teaching, but the wrong order ... I was feverishly applying methods I had learned - like fasting and prayer ... rebuking and resisting evil spirits ... empty formulas which wear us out and produce no results except maybe a sore throat”  (The Word, The Name, The Blood, pp. 28, 32, 33 reference PFO article January-March 1996).

Our warfare is a supernatural warfare you don’t fight the devil the same way you would a natural war. The weapons of our warfare are not carnal they’re not natural weapons but their mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds. One of the reasons why I tell you talk back to the devil is because the word of God is supernatural weapon it is a spiritual weapon…”

Do we fight the devil by speaking to him or do we stand in Christ and he is to flee? What does the Scripture say?

  We need to warfare with words. I believe that praise and worship is warfare. We talked about this last night, how when we are praising and worshipping God that there's actually a, an odor that comes off of us that is offensive to the enemy. And I don’t know if you ever had the opportunity to smell a demon possessed person but I have, and I tell you it is a stench; and I was saying about that this morning and I thought you know people that are demon possessed have an offensive odor to me and I’m glad because I am holy ghost possessed that I’ve got an offensive odor to the devil.” (broadcasted on the Bible Answerman  Jan.2003)   

There is nothing in the Bible that those who are possessed have an offensive odor except if they have not taken a bath, and those who are not demon possessed would smell the same way without a bath as well. And yes, I have had the opportunity to smell and converse with demonized people and one cannot immediately tell by smell, this patently wrong. But not in certain charismatic circles, unfortunately none of this can be found in the New Testament.  

Now spirits don't have bodies, so we can't see them. Okay? There probably is, I believe there is, and I certainly hope there is several angels up here this morning that are preaching with me. I believe that right before I speak some anointed statement to you, that one of them bends over and says in my ear what I'm supposed to say to you.”  Joyce Meyer (Witchcraft & Related Spirits (Part 1) - 2 A-27 Audiotape) http://www.bereanfaith.com/heresy.php?action=aquote&id=14

This again brings up a serious concern, that Joyce actually believes this type of communication is going on with her. That she has spirits (angels) speaking to her. When she is supposed to be hearing from the Holy Spirit who leads a teacher into the truth of the word, not outside of it.

She also practices “Pain is a spirit. When it gets on your body, tell it to leave”  ( Joyce Meyer, From the Cross to the Throne, audio tape, sermon recorded at Life Christian Center in Saint Louis, Mo -referenced from Personal Freedom Outreach).  

Pain is an indicator of something wrong in the body, it is a God given sign. Jesus made it clear that not all sickness or pain are from unclean spirits, some were - some were not.

On the subject of the blood of Jesus she does say some things that are correct, but she also uses the blood in an unbiblical manner. She writes, “One of the ways we can honor the blood is by singing about it, talking about it, studying about it and meditating on it” (p. 100). Where does the Bible teach or even hint as such a thing, we don’t honor the blood apart from the person we honor; the person it flowed from. While it is good to study what the blood can do and the Old Testament types, she goes beyond anything the Scripture states. For example I know the devil is afraid of the blood” (ibid., pg. 101).“We must learn to ‘use’ the blood” (ibid. pg. 109). She explains how she does it “My husband and I stay in various hotels because of our travels in ministry. Quite frequently when unpacking and settling into a hotel room I will ‘plead’ the blood or ‘put’ the blood on the room, to cleanse or remove any wrong spirits that may be there from other guests. I do this by praying, by speaking the blood in my prayer” (ibid., p. 111).

This is wrong use of the blood of Christ. Jesus is our high priest who already applied the blood to our lives when we believe in faith on his Atonement that took place nearly 2,000 years ago. (Eph.1:7; Col. 1:14)  We cannot apply the blood over anything. We do not handle the blood, our high priest Jesus does. It is applied to those who are recipients of salvation (Heb.10:19-22). His blood was applied only to those who have faith in the atonement of Christ for their SIN, not anything a. It has to do with our forgiveness and cleansing of sin and a guilty conscience, not to fight demons.  (for more on pleading the blood). We do not see any example of Christian's pleading the blood against demons in the Scripture. This is strictly a modern Charismatic tradition that was not taught by the apostles who gave the teachings to the church.

The Word/ Faith Jesus 

And in Luke 23:43, Jesus said unto him, ‘I say unto you today you shall be in paradise with me.’ There’s no punctuation in the original translations of the Bible. We have punctuated it and in this particular Scripture it was punctuated wrong. They put in there: ‘I say unto you comma today you shall be in paradise with me’ making it appear that the minute Jesus died on the cross He went straight to paradise. No, no, no. He did not. The way it should read is: ‘I say unto you today comma. I’m telling you today. Today I’m telling you that you are going to be in paradise with me.’ But He didn’t say, ‘You’re going to be there today.’ He said, ‘I’m telling you this today.’” (Joyce Meyer, From the Cross to the Throne)

This is the same wrong argument you get from a Jehovah’s Witness, except she is trying to prove that Jesus went to hell, not paradise (the good side in Hades). Jesus going to hell is also part and parcel of the word faith teaching and it about the most heretical thing taight because it affects the gospel and the nature of Christ.

Jesus said, ‘It is finished.’ And He meant the Old Covenant. The job He had to do was just getting started. He really did the job the three days and nights that He was in hell. That’s where the job was done” “He was pronounced guilty on the cross but He paid the price in hell (From the Cross to the Throne Joyce Meyer, audio tape). This teaching has been popularized  from  Hagin, Copeland Fred Price, Charles Capps etc.

In her book The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make - August, 1991 edition First Printing Joyce writes, “During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go (legally) because of our sin. He paid the price there. ...no plan was too extreme. ... Jesus said on the cross and in hell. she continues.... God rose up from His throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, 'Let Him go.' Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus. ...He was resurrected from the dead - the first born-again man. (p. 35- 36)

Where does the Bible say this? this is her adding to the word of God where she should be silent in awe of Jesus' holiness. The similarity of Meyer’s teaching to Copeland’s, Hagins and other word faith teachers heresy are not coincidence. This is clearly word faith false theology. Jesus did not need to be born again he’s God! Only sinners need to be born again.

 Yet she writes- Jesus paid on the cross and in hell.” “Jesus took your place in hell.” “Jesus went to hell for you.”  

  Jesus said, ‘It is finished.’  And He meant the Old Covenant.  The job He had to do was just getting started.  He really did the job the three days and nights that He was in hell.  That’s where the job was done” “He was pronounced guilty on the cross but He paid the price in hell. (Joyce Meyer, From the Cross to the Throne)

This is not a one time teaching as she writes: Believe that Jesus did what the Bible says. Believe He is indeed the Son of God, born of a virgin. He took man’s sin Himself. He became our sacrifice and died on the cross. He did not stay dead. During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go (legally) because of our sin. He paid the price there. (The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make p.35)

While the Bible teaches Jesus descended into Hades (not hell) He DID NOT pay the price there. (see Eph.2:14-15) This is another gospel because Jesus descended victoriously, there was nothing else to pay- He said it is finished. If it is not finished then the cross is insufficient  and Paul saying he made known nothing else but the crucified savior as his message is wrong.

She goes on to say this emphatic statement “There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell   (Joyce Meyers, the Most important decision You will ever make 1991).

She has the gospel wrong- it's Jesus taking your place on the cross not in hell. Either Jesus' work was finished on the cross or he has lied and should have correctly stated “it is almost finished,” then only after he was raised could He say it is finished, not before. But he does not say this after he raised from the dead but before he dies.

We need to consider the weight of this teaching from Meyer. If Jesus finished His work of salvation in hell and not on the cross then we have a different gospel presented than what's in the Bible. Who should we believe? When we take communion it is pointing to the work of our salvation paid at the cross. He makes it clear by saying this is my body broken for you and my blood shed.

Personal Freedom Outreach reported that, “A pastor at whose church Meyer was to speak told her about serious concerns he had about her booklet. As a result, she has revised parts of it.” But the revisions did not affect this teaching of the Born Again Jesus that is part of the word faith teaching. And she has not notified anyone on any change in her theology.

In the the second printing of the book she deleted the following words: “As God's Spirit left Him.” (p. 37) “...”this truth I am presenting.” (p. 37) “Jesus took your place in hell" (ibid.)

“...the Father filled His spirit again. For three days He was alone paying for our sins as “only a man.” The price had to be paid by someone just like us.” (p. 38,) “He went to hell to pay the debt you owed.” (p. 41)

Her aberrant view has been held for some years  “Jesus died as our substitute. He who knew no sin was made to be sin. He took upon himself our sin nature. And he died- he was separated and cut off from God. He went down into the prison house of suffering in our place. He was there for three days and nights” (Made Alive, The word of faith Apr. 15, 1982)

To make matters worse she strangely echoes Kenneth Copeland's view…All the hosts of hell was [sic] upon Him. Upon Him. They got on Him. They got Him down in the floor and got on Him. And they  were laughing and mocking.” “Sunday morning, here comes the Son.  Sunday morning, God gets Himself together.  Ho, hoooo.  Justice has been met, somehow the thing's been taken care of.  And ol' God gets His voice together and He hollers out three words and they go roaring through the universe and entering the gates of hell.  He said,  'It is enough! It is enough!” (audio tape,  From the Cross to the Throne, sermon recorded at Life Christian Center in Saint Louis, Mo.] reference1999 - Personal Freedom Outreach).

Anyone who removes our salvation by the way of the cross is teaching another gospel. Doesn’t matter how much wisdom they appear to show, they are preaching another gospel.

If Meyer would remove herself from the faith movement she may have a healthier and more correct teaching on the core doctrines.

 

It amazes me, and not only does it amaze me, it aggravates me. These people who think they've got a ministry of exposing what's wrong with everybody else...Why is it that people think that it's their call to go around and find out what's wrong with everybody else and print it? Do you know when people were try to stop Jesus, finally some very wise man said, 'Why don't you just leave us alone? If it's of God, you're not gonna stop it. And if it's not God, it won't last too long anyway.' Hallelujah! I mean, that's just the way I feel about it” (Like a Mighty Wind, Joyce Meyer).

Her reference is to Gamaliel who was not a believer and was not wise. Let me answer her statement by saying that some people do ask questions about what they hear and we have every right to examine ones teachings that are spoken publicly to see if they are right or wrong. The apostle Paul commended the Berean's for questioning what he spoke to them. Is Meyer above the apostles?  Its not that ministries are looking for what is wrong with everybody else but they are trying to watch for the brethren who are babes in Christ and those who are naive and don't know any better, especially in this time of deception. Let me put this another way, what is with these teachers that think they can say ANYTHING they want publicly and not allow anyone to examine whether it is correct or not. Who are they to tell people to disobey the freedom they have in Christ?  If she spoke what is right (such as on the atonement and word faith teachings) there would be nothing she needs to be concerned about. However, her using Gamaliel's argument shows how non-biblical her source for validation is. Gamaliel did not make up his own mind on following Jesus as the Messiah. Gamaliel was a Pharisee, he was not saved nor was this Godly wisdom; for God tells us to test all things not let them be and run their course.  Joyce should know this. But maybe she doesn't want to know this because of what she already believes.

pt.2 Joyce Meyer and her prosperity message

 

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