A Little step toward truth that is still is a too far away
I had been hearing of some change in Joyce Meyer’s teaching, and came across an article stating Prosperity teacher Joyce Meyer changes mind on suffering. Eternity News.
It said she recently told a US audience that her views on prosperity and faith had got “out of balance.”
It may appear at first that Joyce Meyer has backed away from her extreme word faith views, but this has not happened. I went and listened to the series before this was written hoping it was true. Whatever change occurred was insignificant.
Why do I say this?
Here is what she said: “[In] the Word and Faith movement back in the ’60s and the ’70s, [there was] lot of teaching in that about prosperity … I thank God for it. God touched my life back then in a powerful way because I knew I was saved by grace, but I didn’t know anything about using my faith for anything other than just salvation. Faith is something God gives you that you need to use and release in your life. It’s a powerful force, but it’s not just automatic. You put your trust in God. You put your faith in Him.”
Meyer continued, “I’m glad for what I learned about prosperity, but it got out of balance. I’m glad for what I learned about faith, but it got out of balance. So every time somebody had a problem in their life, it was because they didn’t have enough faith. If you got sick, you didn’t have enough faith. If your child died, you didn’t have enough faith. Well, that’s not right. There’s nowhere in the Bible where we’re promised that we’ll never have any trouble. Meyer now says, “I don’t care how much faith you’ve got, you’re not going to avoid ever having trouble in your life.” (Galatian1 teaching 2019 underlines mine)
Meyer’s comments on problems, troubles does not have her break from her prosperity or faith teaching. Though she spoke of it as an example of something ‘out of balance.’ This is all Joyce said on this which amounts to little.
So how did this get out of balance? Is Joyce trying to bring a balance?
Meyer did not show remorse speaking on the unbalance she participated in. It was an unapplicable statement. There was no specific correction to those who learned from her when she claimed she was “unbalanced,” in fact the books and tapes with the out of balance teaching are still being sold.
Her summation, “Everything that’s good doesn’t always stay good,” Meyer said. “It seems like we, as Christians, just don’t know how to stay out of the ditch … You have to be very careful about veering away from the truth.” She says “Balance is so important. And to be honest, we are just not real great at it.”
She still said in her teaching “faith is a force” but she adds the right Biblical definition alongside it. That it is trust, which actually negates the definition she gave of it being a force we use. Are we trusting a force? Or do we trust God who is personal?
So does this balance mean your words now have only 60% power instead of 100%? Or no power? What exactly does this mean?
In her Galatians teaching she tells the people to turn it over to God … It’s hard work running the world, let me tell you I tried” (Gal.8 teaching). Isn’t that what words of faith are used for? So has she abandoned this? No. I heard nothing that it was wrong.
She has said words “they are containers for power, and we have to decide what kind of power we want our words to carry. ... I believe that our words can increase or decrease our level of joy. They can affect the answers to our prayers and have a positive or negative effect on our future. ...."
“I believe that words are containers for power and they either carry negative or positive power. They carry creative or destructive power. So, if I'm speaking right things I'm going to have right results. And if I'm speaking wrong things I'm going to have wrong results. And we do pay for our words. If, if I can say it like this, we eat our own words." (Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
These word Faith teachings on words that are still expressed in her books. She still sells her books like Change Your Words, Change Your Life: Understanding the Power of Every Word You Speak.
How about change your doctrine?
This not out of balance, it is religious science and from the occult. The whole teaching should be abandoned because your words do not have the power that she said they do.
And what about some of her statements that defend these teachings as from the Bible …
"But you cannot throw out positive confession, and you cannot throw out all the faith teachers, and you cannot throw out positive thinking. And you cannot get rid of those kinds of things because they're in the Bible from one end of it to the other." (Witchcraft and Related Spirits, pt. 1, sides 1 and 2 quoted in PFO Quarterly Journal, April-June 2002 p. 6)
"The faith movement is right. You can't throw the faith movement out the window."
(Witchcraft and Related Spirits, pt. 1, sides 1 and 2 Joyce Meyer, source: PFO Quarterly Journal, April-June 2002, p. 14)
There is no adjusting these statements, it must be rejected.Yet she talked about responsibility in her Galatian teaching; where is it, as this word faith teaching continues. The Power of Words, The Secret Power of Speaking God's Word are still listed. What is this balance?
Her teaching in Galatians was not a word for word teaching, but highlights in the chapters of the book. She used insights from her own life, mistakes and wrong beliefs she held at the beginning of her teaching career. Some were helpful, and she often stating the obvious, which comes by common sense.
During her teaching she continually paused and even elicited clapping several times in each message, sometimes the clapping from the audience as impromptu.
She said “I’m so far from perfect it’s pathetic” (pt.4 Galatians teaching 2019)
She seems to have neglected to correct her former position she insisted of herself, that she is no longer a sinner which is what the Bible defines as not being perfect.
“I am not poor. I am not miserable and I am not a sinner. … I didn’t stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head I wasn’t a sinner anymore. And the religious world thinks that’s heresy and they want to hang you for it. But the Bible says that I am righteous and I can’t be righteous and be a sinner at the same time.”(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dmHJdM63hk)
Well of course you can, Paul said so Rom 7:15, 19, v.20 “Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.” Paul said he sinned after he was saved.
The fact is you cannot be forgiven unless you recognize your sin and this does not stop when you are born again. Consider that she is saying she stopped sinning. Do you know anyone who does not sin? Who is like Jesus, without sin, think about what she said?
Did she push a reset button on the “word faith gospel” she is teaching? If you really came to a realization and wanted to bring “balance,” you would turn from it, go back to the word and say no more. But I see no announcement of change on her website.
After her saying a gospel invitation in her Galatian book teaching she then includes that Jesus “he went to hell in our place.”
What does she think took place on the cross? That was not enough suffering, there was to be more. No balance here.
That is what she teaches, “Jesus paid on the cross and went to hell in my place.” (The most important decision you’ll ever make, Joyce Meyer, second printing, May 1993, p. 36) still being sold on Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other sites.
“He could have helped himself up until the point where he said I commend my spirit into your hands, at that point he couldn’t do nothing for himself anymore. He had become sin, he was no longer the Son of God. He was sin.”
According to Meyer “it is finished” means that The Old Covenant was finished but the atonement was not. It really was continuing when Jesus said these words. Meyer misunderstands that the words, “It is finished” are one Greek word which means to complete a process to accomplish its end.
She says “He had become sin, he was no longer the Son of God. He was sin.”
Jesus stopped being the Son of God? If one cannot see the tremendous error in this then they need to reevaluate what they believe, because this is not the Bible’s gospel. To be the Son of God means he is deity, can God stop being God?
She says He was no longer the Son of God, but then she contradicts herself by saying “he was --demon powers tormenting the sinless son of God” (The most important decision you’ll ever make, by Joyce Meyer, second printing, may 1993, page 36)
Which is it?These are contradictions on only one subject Joyce teaches. I can tell that her teachings are filled with opposite statements like these.
So because he became sin Jesus went to hell, (not hades) “Well here comes Jesus into hell. Now I don’t know what hell looks like but God gave me a few ideas. It is hot, fire hot…,”
"For three days He was alone paying for our sins as "only a man." Again a contradiction of what she formerly said.
Which Joyce are you going to believe?
Are you going to believe after the crucifixion it is what Jesus did in hell that counts. This is the gospel she has added and subtracted from. How you may ask? Additions describing
His spirit went to hell because that is where we deserved to go.”“Jesus went to hell for you”
"Jesus took your place in hell.
“He really did the job the three days and nights that He was in hell. That’s where the job was done”
“He was pronounced guilty on the cross but He paid the price in hell.”
“During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go (legally) because of our sin. He paid the price there.
“Jesus paid on the cross and in hell” (Joyce Meyer, The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make, p. 35.)
Then after 3 days “God rose up from His throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, ‘Let Him go.’ Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus … He was resurrected from the dead — the first born-again man” (p. 36).
He “was separated from the Father, tormented by demons in hell” “Jesus is the first born again man. (1991-Edition)
From her book “There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell.”(p. 37 The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make Booklet, 1991 edition)
While this is slightly softened in the 1996 edition to not be what she is saying “You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place…. Jesus went to hell for you. He died for you. He paid for your sins.” The meaning stays the same.
Listen to Joyce on this and you may as well be listening to Hagin, Copeland, Dollar, Savelle and the rest of the word faith teachers who copied Kenyon and William Branham.
Did she balance out her message? No.
Jesus is still “the first born again man.” (The most important decision you’ll ever make, by Joyce Meyer, second printing, may 1993, page 36)
To be born again means a nature change, which affirms that Jesus was sinful and needs to become holy.
The crucifixion is a most holy event.
She is teaching a misplaced purchase. Why can’t she treat the gospel right? Joyce needs to take a 2nd even a 3rd look at the gospel she has held to get the differences.
Joyce in her teaching in Galatians calls “Jesus the perfect spotless lamb of God.” Well he can’t be if he went to hell as a sinner and suffered there. It’s one gospel or the other. Either she abandons the word faith view and adheres to the Bible or she does not. We certainly want her to finally believe the Bibles one.
Some may say not everyone is right on all things. My friend, Joyce has been in ministry for over 40 years. If you don’t have the gospel right, all these other things you may be correct on do not matter.
1 Cor.15:1-2Paul speaks of “the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved,
1 Cor. 15:3-4 that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures.”
According to the Scriptures. He died for our sins, he bled and suffered on the cross. Do you see Paul teach what Joyce does? No you do not!
From the book of Galatians she is teaching through. Gal. 1:9 “As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.”
In a latter part of her Galatian teaching she states “when weird little doctrines come floating through the church from time to time, you need to be well grounded in the word of God to not be deceived from those things. Because I have seen 42 years, I have seen different things come through different movements” (she sums it up by saying you need to know what you believe)
“I can tell you deception in the last days is going to be so great the Bible says if he didn’t shorten the days for the sake of the elect no man can stand the deception that is coming on the earth (someone yelled out thank you).
What she has stated which is not exactly what it says: Matt. 24:22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.” It means to be killed. Only those whose names written in the Lambs book of life will be victorious, killed or not.
Joyce, not only have you seen this but you have and are still participating in it. That deception is already here, growing.
Joyce Meyer may have changed her mind slightly on our suffering, but not on Jesus suffering in hell.