p.1 Why can’t we agree or unite with “today’s prophets?”
Recently a document was released by a group of modern prophets called a “PROPHETIC STANDARDS STATEMENT,” beginning with “ At a time when there are many questions in the Body concerning the gift of prophecy and the ministry of the prophet,… Their “ purpose is to help provide scriptural guidelines for the operation of the gift of prophecy and the functioning of the ministry of the prophet…”
You too can join and sign to affirm their statement, so far they have 396 signatures. (5/4/21)
Their numbers may yet reach in the thousands. As Jesus did warn Woe to you when all men speak well of you, For so did their fathers to the false prophets .” (Luke 6:26)
Some names are familiar false prophets (and teachers), as they have past records that cannot be washed away. Others are new, and still others have reversed their position on prophets to agree with the collective statement. Still, some names are unusually missing, we wait to see if they will be added.
The signers all deserve to be on this list. In fact it’s about time we see some unity and transparency from them. I can think of many others that can be added to this list who love the praise of man for their pseudo gift (Jn.12:13).
They begin their apologetic diatribe by taking the position that so many today are not welcoming prophecy. The fact is, too many are listening to prophecy from these “prophets,” and that is why much of the Church is in the state of diminished knowledge and discernment. It is the false teachers who are false prophets, one is certainly connected to the other.
The fact is, prophesy was not an everyday utterance as it is today, it was rare and used often when people were rebelling against the WORD given (Old Testament).
I’m not going to spend much time addressing all the excuses spoken, this has been addressed for year’s by me and many others. While there is a number statements that are accurate in their “we believe” when the Bible is quoted, there are many that are not. The mixture of truth with error is what we need to scrutinize.
This would all be called silly, or something to laugh at if it weren’t such a serious, destructive issue in our time. You can thank Peter Wagner who made an accommodation for the prophets gathering together (with apostles) at his “National School of the prophets.” And let’s not overlook the Elijah list that is the carrier of the numerous daily false utterances and other websites like it that do it daily damage.
Wagner, chuck Peirce and Cindy Jacobs tried this tact 20 years ago for repairing their appalling track record, it’s only become worse since then.
At his NATIONAL SCHOOL OF THE PROPHETS May 13, 2000, Peter Wagner apologized to pastors on behalf of the prophets. I do not see this in Scripture, why would true prophets even have to worry about these types of addresses? These few words by the head Apostle Peter Wagner was insufficient to undo the countless situations of damage that resulted from misguided men.
" Now bringing up what we in the National School of the Prophets provoked last year to a certain extent and churches [are upset about this and Y2K was one of the issues - I want to talk to you pastors... who are watching this tape on the video and I’m speaking on behalf of the Council of Prophetic Elders. …This is the prophets speaking to you: 'Pastors, we are grieved that some would return from last year’s National School of the Prophets and violate your pastoral authority. We honor and affirm your authority and that pains us as it does you. We are grieved that some prophets would prophesy judgment with no tears and no compassion. We're sorry that when some have seen judgment come, they've said 'it serves them right.' We're very sorry that some prophets have done that. We're grieved that some of us too readily used the phrase 'Thus saith the Lord' when we know that there can be milder ways of communicating what we're hearing from God. We're grieved for our lack of discernment when we have broadcast revelation we should have kept to ourselves… ."
This lasts statement of a “lack of discernment when we have broadcast revelation we should have kept to ourselves ” shows that it’s not prophecy that Scripture describes.
Wagner speaking to a large number of pastors and their wives who have come forward in response to his asking all pastors who have ever been hurt or damaged by prophets or the prophetic respond, and he says:
"(speaking of last years conference: )" Maybe thirty thousand tapes went out so we are taking this seriously. I want to begin with a scripture that I hope that for you pastors, it becomes the most important scripture that you take home with you and that’s 2 Chronicles 20:20...the last part of it is "Believe his ...excuse me. Believe in the Lord Your God and you shall be established. Believe His prophets and you shall prosper ...My hearts desire is that every single one of you prosper in the ministry and the life that God has given you ...Who am I speaking on behalf of? I’m speaking on behalf of God. He wants you to prosper and I want you to prosper ...God wants your pews to be full. He wants you to prosper. Yet in many cases of you standing here, you cant believe the prophets because you have been wounded by the prophets. Believing the prophets has become an obstacle to you....And I want you pastors to know that I am really sorry. I'm the convener of this conference, I’m the one responsible, and I'm really sorry that that happened here. Whatever part we had in triggering trouble in your churches, …I’m talking about the people out there…”
Ted Haggard speaking to Cindy Jacobs, there were a couple of things that Peter mentioned there. I can think of one of them. …
" And that’s been awkward, because, as a pastor I love the Lord and as a prophetess I know you love the Lord with all your heart. and in your desire to please the Lord and in my desire to please the Lord, sometimes its run haywire. And so as a pastor of this church that we're meeting in. And as a representative of some of these men and women of God who serve in pastoral ministry. I apologize to you as a representative of the prophetic and as a prophetess, and I want to tell you that we're sorry for hurting your feelings. That we're sorry for the things that we've said. We're sorry for the way we've abused our authority . Rather than enabling you and encouraging you and working together to perfect each of our callings for the explosive growth in the Body of Christ, not just explosive ministry...”
Ted Haggard: “But when it came to the prophetic, all of a sudden it has a totally different standard. And there are reasons for that. That wasn't a foolish, random change in standard. But I think those reasons are weaker than other reasons of empowering and enabling the prophetic in our churches. And so I'm very sorry. I apologize and I will never do that again by the grace of God.” (applause)
Cindy Jacobs: “ If there’s anyone prophetic, you are maybe identifying where I stand as Ted was sharing this, would you stand for just a moment? I wanna say to you pastors, I so admire you because the prophets have hurt you, evidently, - your prophetic people - but yet you still believe in it or you wouldn’t be here. I am amazed.”
“We need to have a clean river. Prophetic people, we need to forgive. In the name of Jesus, I want you please just to identify - We forgive you. We've made a lot of mistakes. There's no excuse but we need to do better . But we forgive. You thought we had bad motives for what we did, when you didn’t look at the heart. We spoke things that hurt. We forgive you, do you forgive?"
The statements of needing ‘a clean river” We've made a lot of mistakes.”
Besides her manipulation of saying they forgive them, so they should forgive the prophets; after all they had good motives (a standard liberal excuse statement).
It didn’t work then and it certainly will not work now! Do prophets get better at prophesying? Considering they have taught the body is not ready for 100%, so 30%, or 60% is good. This has nothing to do with the Christianity of the Bibles prophets.
There is not such description as a mistaken prophet, they make up words and terms from the culture, use terms from outside the Bibles definitions but if asked for a chapter and verse they are unable to point to any.
This is now their ongoing attempt to salvage of a proven sordid history from their modern prophetic movement. They know what they spoke on Covid19 and the presidential election was both false, dividing and damaging. Now they are united in a massive damage control effort to keep their reputation as prophets intact.
Jesus used the word mistaken (err) on the subject of the resurrection for a woman that has a number of her husbands die and remarrying, the originally meaning is being in error.
When describing prophets it’s either false or true on what they speak. Approximately 7 times in the New Testament, 7 times in the old they are described as speaking falsely, known often as LYING, being a false witness, intentionally or not intentionally.
Prov. 6:19 A “ false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren.”
What portion of a true prophets words were ever incorrect. A prophet chosen by God speaks for God accurately. A prophet made by man, speaks false words that are not from God.
Jesus said you would know them by their fruits even when they come sounding like they are believers.
Matt 7:15 “ Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing”
He did not say watch out for mistaken prophecy.
He goes on in v.16 “ Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?”
In other words you can’t get something to eat from a tree that does not bear fruit. Thornbushes, thistles is related back to Genesis 3:18, the curse on the land from sin. Jesus also warned of the seed (the Word); the thorns sprang up and choked them.” (Matt 13:7)
V.17-20 “ Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.”
Jesus is giving us a preventative measure for listening to people (called trees) that produce bad fruit, a warning for those entertaining themselves by the fresh (rhema) words that continually coming forth as they do today.
One can identify a good tree that will produce fruit as fruit is applicable to doctrine. It is the outward display of the kind of life that is on the inside, what one believes. Those who teach on prosperity and live above others in their luxury, who deny the triune nature of God, who also claim we are little gods, that teach of the sons of God manifested today, that can anoint you with God’s spirit, bring fire on you, speak words to change reality are according to the Bible not of God.
Jesus also warned of what it would be like in the last days, “ many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.” (Matt. 24:11) He did not mention mistaken prophets. Jesus said one of the main signs of the end were false prophets, there would be many of them. So of course if one were labeled as false they would much rather change the term to mistaken and not be identified as such.
These same “ false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand .” (Matt. 24:24-26)
The other apostles warned, Peter in 2 Peter 2:1 “ But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies
John in 1 John 4:1 “many false prophets have gone out into the world.”
If there are many 2,000 years ago what of the many at the end?
You can read their statement here: https://propheticstandards.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Prophetic-Standards-Statement.pdf
Accountability is mentioned but since 1999 when the prophet/apostle meetings began there has been none.
They write in their statement “ in the five-fold ministry of the prophet, recognizing that such prophets will also be used to bring correction, instruction, and directional clarity to the Body” but not independent of other leaders, and therefore different from the model of the independent Old Testament prophet.”
Does not Paul, and the writers of Scripture who were prophet’s point to the Word for these functions? 2 Tim.3:16 is primary for all, for those who believe in prophecy and those who do not! The Bible is completed, we are not in the age of it being delivered! There is no 5 fold ministry of the prophet. In fact there is no such thing as a five fold ministry, this too is made up.
Eph. 2:20-21 “having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone.” Meaning the whole Church shares in this.
Further stating in Eph. 4:11-12 “He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ”
Paul who wrote to the Ephesians also states in his Corinthian church letter,
Of “first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.” (1 Cor. 12:28)
In other words what was primary in the first century for the church to be built on is expanded to the whole body for there to be a healthy church. Notice he included the practical gifts with the supernatural, along with the primary offices that have built the foundation. Paul also explain in Rom. 12:6 of the different gifts in operation. Its not just 5 as mentioned in Eph.4:11 and its not just 2 as mentioned in Eph. 2:20. You can like this to Moses first giving ten commandments and then 603 more to follow.
The signatures write, “we need to encourage freedom in the Spirit in a faith-filled atmosphere, making room for spontaneous utterances as the Spirit wills. But all this must be done with proper accountability and oversight.”
Their application of these principles can vary in interpretation. 1) Who gives the accountability? 2) who has oversight? Their own appointed prophets?
The summation of their pseudo explanation is this…
“finally, while we believe in holding prophets accountable for their words, in accordance with the Scriptures, we do not believe that a sincere prophet who delivers an inaccurate message is therefore a false prophet. Instead, as Jesus explained, and as the Old Testament emphasized, false prophets are wolves in sheep’s clothing, in contrast to true believers who might speak inaccurately (see Matt. 7:15-20; Jer. 23:9-40; Ezek. 13:23). Thus a false prophet is someone who operates under a false spirit masquerading as the Holy Spirit .”
And would that false prophet know this or think he is receiving from the Holy Spirit? And who among them is able to identify this false spirit? Those who have allowed the false spirit to spread and move on them by falling, flailing, vibrating, numbing and dumbing. The Bible says false prophecy can also come from our own spirit (Ezek. 13:2-4).
The Bible teaches us in 1 Cor. 14:32 “ the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.”
What prophets? The ones Scripture is written by, that is whom they are to be subject to.
Jesus used the prophets as witnesses to identify who he is and what he is saying is the truth.
Paul continues in V. 33-34 “ For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.”
“WE THEREFORE RECOGNIZE distinctions between a believer who gives an inaccurate prophecy (in which case they should acknowledge their error), a believer who consistently prophesies inaccurately (in which case we recognize that this person is not a prophet and we urge them to stop prophesying), and a false prophet (whom we recognize as a false believer, a lost soul, calling them to repent and be saved).
You may recognize distinctions but the Word does not have these. Are you going to urge yourselves to stop prophesying? That’s rich!
This is like saying “I’m not lying because I don’t know I’m lying, I don’t think I’m lying, I think what I’m saying is from God.” We can go to the past and see many of these signatory prophets have done just this.
“we believe in holding prophets accountable for their words.” Lets begin with Benny Hinn’s 1989 new year’s eve prophecy, a man whose friends with all the prophets. ( The Lord also says that, Two of his great giants will die in the mid-90's; Fidel Castro will die in the 90's; God will destroy the homosexual community of America; An earthquake will hit the east coast of America and destroy much in the 90's; he walls of Communism have been broken in Europe, they will break in Central America; A world dictator is coming on the scene. This man will rule the world. The next few years you will see him. But not long after that, you will see Me .” (www.letusreason.org/b.hinn.19.htm, and there is so much more.)
No accountability from the prophets -- except from those who discern with the Word to recognize they are false prophets.
“We do not believe that a sincere prophet who delivers an inaccurate message is therefore a false prophet. Instead, as Jesus explained, and as the Old Testament emphasized, false prophets are wolves in sheep’s clothing, in contrast to true believers who might speak inaccurately (see Matt. 7:15-20; Jer. 23:9-40; Ezek. 13:23). Thus a false prophet is someone who operates under a false spirit masquerading as the Holy Spirit.”
And what of those who change the criteria to judge what is true and false, what are they?
It is fact that most involved in the prophetic movement, who call themselves prophets admire William Branham. One only has to do a small amount of research to see how wrong Branham was and how dangerous it is to endorse him.
Let me give a general example we can understand when applied, of a bank robber.
If a bank robber goes into a bank without robbing it does it make him no longer a bank robber. If a Bank robber robs a bank and does not get caught he is still a bank robber.
The Biblical test for a true prophet is to be 100% right 100% of the time. Why? Because prophecy comes from God, it is his words of what will take place and it has not changed in the New Covenant. What if we were to apply this same concept to the word, where prophets in Scripture could be wrong?
In the Old Testament false prophets were not put up with because they misrepresented a perfect God who does everything perfect. In a nation that was to be under God, led of him, they were stoned. Today they are to be removed from the body until they repent before those they harmed.
That’s the price paid for making oneself a modern day prophet, that continually stands in this gift and prophecies. When is the last time you have seen this happen, if ever?
What are we to make of this apologetic attempt by those in the prophetic movement? See it for exactly what it is.
Consider these Scriptures: Jer.29:26; Ezek. 2:5; 1Pt.1:20